The Airfist

[haze]

re: players whining about airfist.(not you rincewind) The only player i've really seen whine about how it should be changed or removed is Decimus. He is clearly pissed because he can't snipe me while i'm flying around. I'm curious who are the other few who find it impossible..and what is their argument, other than their own lack of ability?

Everyone else seems to accept that it has been part of the game for years and you can't keep removing things simply because people don't know how to defend against it. Learn to change your game to defend against it. Adapt or die.

I had no idea how to play with all this custom stuff when i started playing a year ago. Alot of you have been playing custom tf for years and years, with tons of time to figure out what each and every feature is, and what best ways to create different classes. I had to tinker with various types of classes until i found one i really liked. Then it pisses some ppl off and all of a sudden they want it changed? How is that fair? I'm using the same options that are given to everyone equally. Do i sit and whine when a defender buys 3 soldier grunts and has them all with Power auras? something that takes next to ZERO talent or skill to do, and yet can be a huge powerful defensive barrier. No, I figure out what to do about it, either find ways to kill them, or find ways to avoid them.

Not that it really needs more justification but Airfist costs 2000 doesn't it? Thats called a trade off. It means we can't buy another weapon, or a better Skill, etc etc. I remember before that other character quit AGR forever, he was calling me a Tank. are they crazy, the most i can be is 150/100 yellow armor. it literally takes 2 seconds to polish me off with a grenade and rocket.

For example, sapph will sometimes have a rocketlauncher , and a pipebomb trap waiting for me. He can fight me with rockets or even lightning gun (neither of which my shitty yellow armor absorbs well) and when i try to escape around a corner, I run into his pipebomb trap and get splattered on the walls.

That is perfectly fair, and thats the advantage defense gets against an airfister, they have a 2000 dollar advantage to spend on stopping it, also the advantage of not needing to be as fast and mobile as offense. as well as the advantage of being close to their resupply packs, and the advantage of always being with teammates.

What is funny is the better players (even if they hate airfisting) don't ask it to be changed, they deal with it and find ways to stop it. Every class has its weakness. I sacrifice weaponry and strength to have mobility and spammy speed.

[sapphired]

Yeah, really it was(!) a problem to 'stop HAZE' i mean to stop speed of Haze with airfist, and i were complaining about it even told OMC to make airfist more expensive, but previous 2 games found a best way to do it, lighting gun, baby - any weapon you hit flying Haze will reduce speed, but lg do it better then any other and i'm happy now Lg can really stop his speed and do some damage to stopped Haze.

Here is other tip, as long as Haze (or other red player) is playing alone style you can use bio/psionic grenades it can force him/them to play as a team

[Beltan]

My preference was Light Assault Cannon, the problem being that the fister sometimes moves so quickly he can bypass the area you are defending if it isn't blocked somehow. Spamming has always been part of the game, but the airfist turns it into a long range defense wipeout, and then allows the fister to fly through without fighting and escape before anything can be rebuilt.

As much as I liked the grunties I understand the frustration at trying to make your way through a base with 3 of them, especially if they get a little time to grow stronger. It seemed to me like grunties limited the effective countermeasures to either spam or continuously stunning them with damage. A nice addition (if possible) would be if grunts missed about 40% of the time. They are supposed to be 'humans', right? I'm not so sure about the grunts' health levels...I don't think it should take a detpack and a half to kill one- even if it has grown pretty strong.

I think a good compromise would be grunts miss randomly about 40% of the time and cap out at 500 health, but they level up faster and don't get the annoying 'stun' that causes them to be nearly useless.

People- especially assholes- in this game like to counter any argument that something is overpowered with "Anyone can use it". By taking this stance, you are denying people the oppurtunity to create their own custom classes- they are forced to use what you use or be ineffective. That being said, most or all things have counters (not considering ITSELF), so usually there are a few things that can be used to stop an annoying strategy.

[haze]

IMO no change to soldier grunts is required. that wasn't my point. The point is that there will always be challenges. How we deal with it reflects on our character. Do we whine and want it removed because we don't know how to deal with it? OR man up enjoy the challenge? I am using the available tools. If i find a new effective way to play another class, will that be removed too? Where do we draw the line? Does our skill level have to fit into the prescribed shittiness as to not upset the balance?

So your preferred weapon wasn't effective for stopping an airfister, how is that anyone's problem but your own? As a defender it would be your job description to adapt to the current game to stop whatever comes at you. Once again I see no argument other than your own lack of ability, which basically requires an attitude adjustment to fix.

By the way if the airfist is so greatly overpowered and mighty, why isn't every other attacker using it every time? I can only recall about 2 times in the last year that someone else used the airfist.

Your point about me requiring other people to use what i use doesn't make sense. In fact i've rarely seen airfisting defense.. There is a range of what is effective against an airfister in different maps. Just like any other weapon/skill. And there are probably endless combinations of classes that could stop an airfister, in the right persons hands. Some people like sapph have figured it out.

[Beltan]

Gah, I just finished typing for almost 2 hours and the forum erased it. Time to be more concise.

I aint picking on you so you can stow yer damn attitudinalismificationism >:P



I don't want things removed. Certain items and abilities are used rarely while others get really really old because they are used so much. Some abilities could be combined together, the cost adjusted, or just have their effectiveness rebalanced.

I LOVE a good challenge, but when something is so much stronger than other items it's difficult not to be upset when you feel you're being cheated. Example: I love chaplan skill but it's SUPER OverPowered. Pushes away meleers, instantly murders the demons it took the warlock many kills to summon, supercharges teammates' damage and reduces damage taken AND allows them to heal every few seconds *AND* you can still throw tossable grenades while using it. Also-counters-airfisters-and-spies-by-the-way. I have used the chaplan skill to drown enemies before. Really? REALLY? Yes, I sing underwater, therefore you cannot reach the surface. I'm a peaceful man....Except for the grenades.

I've used airfist and I felt like I was cheating because it was so good. Same thing with rocket launcher. That's why I didn't use either of those much. It's likely very few people use it because they just don't prefer to. Also, engineers would be much more inclined to use the airfist if it didn't use cells to operate. They are using all their building material to block what they've built otherwise...but it is an extremely good antispam tool and probably even better on defense than it is on offense.

LAC works well against bhoppers and fisters if you can get in front of them, it hits instantly, fires rapidly, and eats up their momentum.

On a side note >>>
"Once again" you wrote, "I see no argument other than your own lack of ability..." That might hurt my feelings if I had no confidence and gave two squirts of urine about your opinion of my ability. We should focus on the topic, which isn't "things you can say to be a dick". The only reason you used a personal insult was because you couldn't figure out how I was wrong or you somehow feel I'm attacking you personally...which I'm not...so freakin' chill, d00d.