Bots.

[Jonan]

Bots have been pretty controversial as of late.

I see a few issues with them, which are all stacking up to sometimes create a chore of a game. While I do like using them, it's not always that fun to fight non-players over and over.

With little effort I can start massing them to cover an area. If I'm also there holding that area, it can be challenging for enemies to deal with multiple threats at a time, without recustomising to make a anti-bot class. Which in turn takes 2 players out of the game, much akin to if 2 snipers were battling.

(1) Spawning
You can just spawn them anywhere. Including in enemies bases and spawns. This could be balanced by having them only spawn in your team spawn, and you have to guide them out. Atleast it wouldn't be a surprise, and they are supposed to be able to go anywhere.
Also they could take damage if too close to a enemy team spawn.
60 seconds between each one is a bit fast too, combined with a delayed respawn for players, and a bit of travel, and it nearly time for a new one to appear again.

(2) Maximum Amount
Anything greater than 3, is very generous. You can currently just wait it out, and unleash a lot of bots at once. With the left over money you have from buying 3 levels of bots, you can make quite a decent (soldier) class.

(3) Stockpiling
Very powerful. If you can stockpile to the same amount (or more) of your maximum, you could potentially replace an entire squad in no time. Very tiring to deal with. Could you imagine being able instantly replace a fully hacked tesla so easily? Or abomination?

(4) Build / Summon Cost
With Engineer or Warlock, you have to acquire resources and then it still takes time to build / summon your non-player. Not so much with a bot. Spawning in your respawn would be one way to give it an extra cost.

(5) Player Equivalency
Think what it would cost to build a class like a bot.

Starting with:
$50 Single Barrel.
$400 Nailgun.
$1250 Speed [5].
$4100 Minimum 400 HP (300 Red Armor + 100 HP).
$1000 Scuba Gear.
$800 Auto Heal.
-----
$7600

$50 For each 1 HP over 400 (with more to come over time)
$575 Double Barrel.
$650 Knife.
Scanner?
Kevlar?

$3000 Rocket Launcher. (Rare)

Hell of a bargain.

If everything else is going to stay the same, just spawn them with 100-200 HP.


I think the max should go back to 3.
If stockpiling is staying have only 1 extra saved.
Time between should be greater than 1 minute.
2 or more minutes is fine if combined with all the other aspects.

[OneManClan]

I pretty much agree with everything you've said here Jonan.

What should be the 'achievenent' required to give you (eg) 5 bots?

1. Every time a bot gets X kills, he gets promoted (faster tougher) , and only THEN you're allowed to spawn the next one.

2. You can spawn 5 bots at a time, but you have to wait 10 minutes to do it. They teleport in a pack. Enemy doesnt have to constantly deal w a bot here and a bot there, AND they know where all the bots are.

3. The bot factory idea, you buy a machine, like a big bot dispenser. Enemy can kill it, and they your 'time till next bot' is reset, until you build another..

4... umm player has to get x frags without dying.....

the point is, it has to be earned, like Abomnination, or a fully upgraded Tesla.

I do like the current system (slow bots)... BUT... they are so weak, theres no point unless you get the $3200 '60 second' option..

unless...... there were different types of bots.. tougher '5 minute wait' ones and weaker 60 second wait ones... or leave the 'extras' options out of it completely, make Army Bots fixed $3000 + 60 second minimum, and you chose how long to wait before spawning one. 60 seconds = weak and slow... wait 10 (20?) minutes .. you get a TOUGH bot.

Whole lotta options..

[Jonan]

Can the HP be tidied up a bit, do we really need to see decimal places of health, especially to 5-6 places?

[Jonan]

An easy balance for the current bots, would be just doubling the time at each level that you can spawn a new one.

[Jonan]

like Abomnination, or a fully upgraded Tesla.

You could always have the 10th bot be a special bot, with the RL, or some of the earlier upgrades straight away. However, you'd only unlock it if the total bot HP is over 5000, which would mean you need look after the ones you have to get the super bot.

[OneManClan]

like Abomnination, or a fully upgraded Tesla.

You could always have the 10th bot be a special bot, with the RL, or some of the earlier upgrades straight away. However, you'd only unlock it if the total bot HP is over 5000, which would mean you need look after the ones you have to get the super bot.

Looking into this..

[Jonan]

I feel like the bots are finally weak enough, I don't really hear the complaints about them since the HP was dropped.

[OneManClan]

I feel like the bots are finally weak enough, I don't really hear the complaints about them since the HP was dropped.

Yes, this is where I thought we left the matter..

But today I got the impression that you (as well as KOP of course) agree that they should be weakened a little more... so.. I guess it's time to revisit the situation.. including the ideas above.

Making them always spawn in respawns could get messy.. otoh they could be non-solid (for teammates).. or they could spawn at the flag location (might be too far from the action area, depending on map)..

As a fan of bots, I need your opinion here Jonan, because I don't want to weaken them to the point they're not worth buying.

Also, as the main critic of the bots, I need KOP's feedback here too, so we can come up with a compromise that makes everyone happy.

[Jonan]

I'd recommend putting the time between them longer. Also starting HP could be halved.

So, if I take care of them, they will be able to build up their HP. I will have to work for it more.

[OneManClan]

I'd recommend putting the time between them longer. Also starting HP could be halved.

So, if I take care of them, they will be able to build up their HP. I will have to work for it more.

Ok done. To be tested this Sat 9th April, 23:00GMT.

Also... what if... bots had to be 'all together' somehow? ie not scattered here and there... but one cohesive "group", coordinated somehow... otoh, whenever I have eg 10 bots and they all attack together (looks amazing!).. they don't last.. it's very map dependent.. hmm.