Absolute beginners guide to textures


  1. GIMP
  2. The Normal Map plugin:  https://code.google.com/archive/p/gimp-normalmap/


  1. Make “foo.tga”
  2. Make “foo._norm.tga”
  3. Make “foo._glass.tga”
  4. Put foo.tga in your yourtextures.wad
  5. Import yourtextures.wad into your map editor, and use foo.tga in a map
  6. save, compile
  7. put “foo._norm.tga” in quake/yourmod/textures
  8. put “foo._gloss.tga” in quake/yourmod/textures


  1. use texmex, or defullbright to get rid of fullbrights
  2. Changing maps does NOT reload the textures. Reload/refresh the textures via “vid_restart”





Zenimax basically bought whats left of Ritual Entertainment
Feb 04 01:12:39 <OneManClan> Q: How do you get a ‘normal map’ into a map?
Feb 04 01:13:51 <OneManClan> 1. Take foo.png and make foo_normal_map.png
Feb 04 01:14:22 <OneManClan> 1. Put foo.png and foo_normal_map.png into your wad
Feb 04 01:14:28 <OneManClan> um that was ‘2’
Feb 04 01:14:55 <OneManClan> 3. In the map editor, assign foo.png onto a surface
Feb 04 01:14:59 <OneManClan> 4. ?
Feb 04 01:16:28 <OneManClan> (cant find anything on insideqc.com forum)
Feb 04 01:18:01 <OneManClan> (the word ‘normal’ doesnt appear in any subject in the mapping section)
Feb 04 01:18:47 <OneManClan> must be via a shader?
Feb 04 01:20:12 <OneManClan> “qer_normalImage texture: sets the normal map for bump mapping”
Feb 04 01:20:29 <OneManClan> (https://github.com/xonotic/xonotic/wiki/Complete_list_of_shader_keywords)
Feb 04 01:36:46 * OneManClan has been reading about superhot, the game where ‘the enemies only move when you do’
Feb 04 01:38:36 <OneManClan> IIUC this is easy(?) to do in qc
Feb 04 01:39:42 <OneManClan> um, no, hm.. nm
Feb 04 01:40:18 <OneManClan> i was thinkin of making the .frame1time of the enemy dependant on how much the localplayer has moved
Feb 04 01:40:30 <OneManClan> but thats animation
Feb 04 01:41:12 <OneManClan> I suppose you could make enemy speed do a check every frame and align itself to how much the player is moving
Feb 04 01:41:27 <OneManClan> ok.. so what about bullets?
Feb 04 01:42:52 <OneManClan> projectiles have a .velocity … just check it/recalculate it every frame
Feb 04 01:43:23 <OneManClan> direct fire weapons are out… i suppose
Feb 04 01:44:20 <OneManClan> melee might be tricky..
Feb 04 01:45:04 <OneManClan> .. or . maybe not
Feb 04 01:46:52 <OneManClan> if(bot decides to stab you) StartStabAnimation(); and then ..
Feb 04 01:47:32 <OneManClan> (adjust the speed of the animation dependingon player movement)
Feb 04 01:47:49 * Sharkbanana has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
Feb 04 01:47:49 <OneManClan> .. if(were at the pose where the stabbing motion is complete) traceline()
Feb 04 01:48:50 <OneManClan> of course, Im assuming going backwards in time … would be impossible
Feb 04 01:49:20 <OneManClan> unless….
Feb 04 01:49:50 <OneManClan> you could access the mvd ..
Feb 04 01:49:57 <OneManClan> which is constantly being written to.
Feb 04 01:53:16 <OneManClan> .. which I’m assuming is an engine thing, rather than a qc thing
Feb 04 01:53:31 * OneManClan checks fteextensions.qc :)
Feb 04 02:07:39 * Sharkbanana (~Gunther_F@2601:701:c100:26a0:cda8:98ae:3635:1bf7) has joined
Feb 04 02:20:31 * pitch (~asdfaatan@c-70fcdb54.038-235-6d6c6d5.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined
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Feb 04 04:28:28 * Now talking on #qc
Feb 04 04:28:28 * Topic for #qc is: Quixotic Caracole – https://www.insideqc.com – https://www.facebook.com/pages/Quake/8723859970 – https://quakewiki.org – https://qexpo2016.com/ – https://www.quaddicted.com/ – There are plenty of places to be a dick on the internet, #qc isn’t one of them. Thanks. 😀
Feb 04 04:28:28 * Topic for #qc set by Soopa!~Emilia@50-193-192-106-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (Tue Jan 10 03:56:44 2017)
Feb 04 04:29:57 <OneManClan> Q: whats missing from theis shader code? (trying to add a normal map onto a texture):
Feb 04 04:29:58 <OneManClan> http://pastebin.com/40RcjAjx
Feb 04 04:30:38 <OneManClan> is it a path problem, or a shader code problem?
Feb 04 04:31:51 <OneManClan> the texture is called ‘passfield_brick’
Feb 04 04:33:39 <OneManClan> (which shows up normally in the map)
Feb 04 04:34:03 <OneManClan> but as soon as I enable the shander, it goes all white
Feb 04 04:34:10 <OneManClan> shader
Feb 04 04:48:40 * Spoike (~David@host217-42-48-91.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) has joined
Feb 04 04:48:41 * Caleb gives channel operator status to Spoike
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 5 18:08:44 2017

Feb 05 18:08:44 * Now talking on #qc
Feb 05 18:08:44 * Topic for #qc is: Quixotic Caracole – https://www.insideqc.com – https://www.facebook.com/pages/Quake/8723859970 – https://quakewiki.org – https://qexpo2016.com/ – https://www.quaddicted.com/ – There are plenty of places to be a dick on the internet, #qc isn’t one of them. Thanks. 😀
Feb 05 18:08:44 * Topic for #qc set by Soopa!~Emilia@50-193-192-106-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (Tue Jan 10 03:56:44 2017)
Feb 05 18:32:27 <OneManClan> Q: do you need an alpha channel when making normal maps?
Feb 05 18:33:14 <OneManClan> this vid doesnt clarify: https://youtu.be/8Jdo3ZmtPWk?t=358
Feb 05 18:34:04 <OneManClan> she makes the normalmap withoug making a height map..
Feb 05 18:34:18 <OneManClan> … even though here is says you have to make a heightmap first: https://github.com/xonotic/xonotic/wiki/Normal_Maps
Feb 05 18:40:43 <OneManClan> ah in the vid at 7:18 she explains how you process the pic youre making the normalmap first, to increase the contrast
Feb 05 18:41:02 <OneManClan> ugh lemme rephrase
Feb 05 18:41:38 <OneManClan> in the vid at 7:18 she explains how before you make the normalmap, you process the pic first, to increase the contrast
Feb 05 18:43:51 <OneManClan> ahh yes, she’s brilliant, excellent explanation!
Feb 05 18:46:36 <OneManClan> ah and IIUC the QRP textures were done with ‘alpha channel’ set to ‘height’
Feb 05 20:33:17 <OneManClan> new settings: using desaturate, increasong contrast (w curves), + heightmap + alpha channel: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/32596796101/in/dateposted-public/
Feb 05 20:33:52 <OneManClan> cluser look: closeup of side view: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/31876820674/in/dateposted-public/
Feb 05 20:35:01 <OneManClan> ok its overdone, but look at those bumps!
Feb 05 20:35:07 <OneManClan> (spikes?)
Feb 05 20:36:24 <OneManClan> inversed colours, high contrast + scale:3: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/31876819604
Feb 05 20:36:53 <khreathor> what are you trying to achieve? just curious
Feb 05 20:37:05 <OneManClan> the spikes have become dints: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/31906639513/
Feb 05 20:37:56 <OneManClan> tryin to make awesome looking/quality/realistic normal maps
Feb 05 20:38:23 <OneManClan> lookin for the ‘secret sauce’ :)
Feb 05 20:38:38 <OneManClan> good news: its not that hard to do
Feb 05 20:39:14 <OneManClan> bad news: it IS harder if you want great/realistic results
Feb 05 20:40:31 <OneManClan> well.. fiddly, anyway
Feb 05 20:41:22 <OneManClan> need to figure out what’s causing/how to get rid of those fulbrights
Feb 05 20:42:02 <khreathor> is specular possible to ?
Feb 05 20:42:23 <OneManClan> havent looked into specular yet
Feb 05 20:43:47 <khreathor> what are you using to generate normal map ?
Feb 05 20:44:02 <OneManClan> a plug-in fop gimp
Feb 05 20:44:06 <OneManClan> a plug-in for gimp
Feb 05 20:44:17 <OneManClan> i think i pasted the link yesterday
Feb 05 20:45:29 <OneManClan> damn i didn tpaste the link
Feb 05 20:45:35 <OneManClan> I *think* its this one: https://code.google.com/archive/p/gimp-normalmap/
Feb 05 20:45:55 <OneManClan> its the one that chick uses in the video (I pasted above)
Feb 05 20:46:14 <OneManClan> that is one GREAT tutorial btw
Feb 05 20:46:29 <OneManClan> she goes through (just about ) everything
Feb 05 20:47:43 <khreathor> ok, can you send me both diffuse and normal so I can take a look how it behaves in Substance Designer and probably tweak it?
Feb 05 20:48:12 <OneManClan> of my texture?
Feb 05 20:48:32 <OneManClan> thats just a crap photo of a wall at the back of my place
Feb 05 20:48:43 <khreathor> ok
Feb 05 20:48:44 <OneManClan> for testing
Feb 05 20:48:48 <OneManClan> but thanks
Feb 05 20:48:58 <khreathor> what If I send you nice bricks with normal map ?
Feb 05 20:49:15 <OneManClan> for be to compare? sure
Feb 05 20:49:39 * OneManClan googles ‘Substance Designer’
Feb 05 20:49:56 <khreathor> this is OpenGL shader or DX ?
Feb 05 20:50:25 <OneManClan> um.. im not sure.. gl i think
Feb 05 20:51:05 <OneManClan> im just using foo.tga in the map/bsp, and putting foo_norm.tga in /fortress/textures
Feb 05 20:51:19 <OneManClan> using FTE
Feb 05 20:51:29 <khreathor> ok
Feb 05 20:52:05 <khreathor> because when you export them wrongly, you’ll get weird results
Feb 05 20:53:18 <OneManClan> what advantages does using Substance Designer give you?
Feb 05 20:53:51 <khreathor> I’m building materials from nodes, so it’s super easy to modify them later
Feb 05 20:53:51 <OneManClan> seems insanely detailed
Feb 05 20:54:12 <khreathor> nad modern engines can load substances and you can modify some values in-game
Feb 05 20:54:21 <OneManClan> ah so its all done in realtime
Feb 05 20:54:37 <OneManClan> ie like the node editor in Blender?
Feb 05 20:54:42 <khreathor> yes, but you can export to tga/jpg etc.
Feb 05 20:54:45 <OneManClan> ie vs writign shader scripts
Feb 05 20:55:03 <OneManClan> (and hitting vid_reload all the time)
Feb 05 20:55:13 <OneManClan> ie in-game
Feb 05 20:55:41 <khreathor> yes something like blender nodes, but it refreshes in realtime etc.
Feb 05 20:57:37 <OneManClan> I guess if were talkin photorealism – its a whole artform in itself
Feb 05 21:03:16 <khreathor> hmm, I hope I don’t have to use quake palette?
Feb 05 21:04:52 <khreathor> and I see from your screenshots there is parallax used in this shader
Feb 05 21:10:20 <OneManClan> hm.. i recall seeing that word (parallax) .. somewhere
Feb 05 21:11:53 <khreathor> http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Parallax_Map
Feb 05 21:16:38 <khreathor> OneManClan, what resolution do you want?
Feb 05 21:16:48 <khreathor> 512×512 ?
Feb 05 21:17:44 <OneManClan> ok
Feb 05 21:20:20 <khreathor> btw what FTE build are you using ?
Feb 05 21:20:34 <OneManClan> jan 29
Feb 05 21:21:09 <OneManClan> updating now
Feb 05 21:23:51 <OneManClan> oh that *is* the latest
Feb 05 21:25:25 <khreathor> khreathor.xyz/tmp/bricks.tga
Feb 05 21:25:31 <khreathor> khreathor.xyz/tmp/bricks_norm.tga
Feb 05 21:25:40 <khreathor> idk if it’s a good suffix
Feb 05 21:25:50 <khreathor> let me know how it works for you
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Feb 05 21:26:06 <khreathor> it’s some standard bricks from Substance Designer
Feb 05 21:26:35 <khreathor> I’ll download FTE and do more testing locally
Feb 05 21:26:46 <khreathor> so we don’t have to juggle files over interwebz
Feb 05 21:28:33 <OneManClan> ok, thanks, testing
Feb 05 21:31:12 <OneManClan> hm, texmex doesnt like *.tga files
Feb 05 21:32:53 <khreathor> ahhhh
Feb 05 21:33:03 <khreathor> yeah I had same problems with texmex
Feb 05 21:33:21 <khreathor> ok let me see what texmex can load
Feb 05 21:33:28 <khreathor> pcx works for sure 😛
Feb 05 21:34:45 <khreathor> Wally works 😀
Feb 05 21:34:54 <khreathor> do you want wad with this texture ?
Feb 05 21:36:02 <OneManClan> iiuc, I need the to put it in a wad so I can use the map editor to add it to the bsp
Feb 05 21:36:15 <OneManClan> iiuc, I need to put it in a wad so I can use the map editor to add it to the bsp
Feb 05 21:36:38 <OneManClan> ill try wally
Feb 05 21:37:01 <khreathor> wally works
Feb 05 21:37:13 <khreathor> I can send you a wad if you want
Feb 05 21:37:31 <khreathor> or just rename it to texture you have already applied
Feb 05 21:38:51 <OneManClan> its cool, thanks, i got wally to work
Feb 05 21:39:58 <khreathor> :)
Feb 05 21:50:28 <OneManClan> um interestinmg
Feb 05 21:50:33 <OneManClan> (uploading)
Feb 05 21:53:09 <OneManClan> wide shot: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/32341316080/
Feb 05 21:53:26 <khreathor> nice
Feb 05 21:53:39 <OneManClan> (looks awesome)
Feb 05 21:53:55 <OneManClan> closeup: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/32720817835/
Feb 05 21:54:47 <OneManClan> I think i overdid the scale w mine
Feb 05 21:55:04 <khreathor> ok now we can add parallax and specular
Feb 05 21:55:26 <khreathor> just have to check out how to prepare them for FTE
Feb 05 21:55:46 <OneManClan> im just using FTEs default ‘real time’ light setting
Feb 05 21:55:58 <OneManClan> though I think i prefer bloom off
Feb 05 21:56:13 <OneManClan> not suer what you mean by ‘prepare them for FTE’
Feb 05 21:57:37 * OneManClan wonders how many thinks I assumed were ‘detailed modelling’.. which might have been texture mapping ‘tricks’
Feb 05 21:57:41 <OneManClan> things
Feb 05 21:59:09 <OneManClan> awesome (but intimidating!) tutorial on ‘Parallax Occlusion Mapping’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hoT8fJJgoU
Feb 05 21:59:18 <khreathor> I mean I don’t know if specular and paralax can be as separate textures or as a channel in normal map etc.
Feb 05 21:59:36 <OneManClan> ah
Feb 05 22:00:08 <OneManClan> i have no memory of Spoike mentioning ‘paralax’
Feb 05 22:07:55 <OneManClan> khreator: so your textures have the ‘fullbrights’ too
Feb 05 22:08:03 <OneManClan> maybe its some setting in the client
Feb 05 22:08:41 <khreathor> I can delete them if you want
Feb 05 22:10:26 <OneManClan> whats causing them?
Feb 05 22:11:28 <khreathor> idk how FTE works with current shader, but in regular quake you have few colors defined as fullbrights in palette
Feb 05 22:11:53 <OneManClan> ah the pal file?
Feb 05 22:12:03 <khreathor> yes
Feb 05 22:13:40 <OneManClan> hmm http://andr.esmejia.com/posts/1-how-to-replace-all-pixels-of-one-color-with-another-color-using-the-gimp
Feb 05 22:15:32 <khreathor> I have updated bricks.tga
Feb 05 22:15:51 <khreathor> redownload it and let me know if there is any change
Feb 05 22:16:09 <OneManClan> ok
Feb 05 22:20:59 <OneManClan> wow -perfect
Feb 05 22:21:03 <OneManClan> how did u do that?
Feb 05 22:21:20 <OneManClan> also the file is smaller
Feb 05 22:23:05 <OneManClan> perfecrt: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/31908260323/
Feb 05 22:23:25 <khreathor> I removed fullbright and indexed colors to 256 with pixelart software
Feb 05 22:23:47 <khreathor> but there must be other way than this oldschool method
Feb 05 22:25:43 <OneManClan> how did you (detect and) remove the fullbright?
Feb 05 22:26:17 <OneManClan> Gimp has ‘Convert Image to Indexed Colors”
Feb 05 22:26:29 <OneManClan> which inclused (use custom pallette)
Feb 05 22:26:43 <OneManClan> but IIUC this limits the colours to those inthe pallette
Feb 05 22:28:14 <khreathor> yes that’s what I did but in Aseprite
Feb 05 22:28:33 <khreathor> which sucks
Feb 05 22:30:45 <khreathor> I have Quake palette for Gimp too if you want
Feb 05 22:34:11 <OneManClan> I made one ages ago, which I think /assume is good… but.. yes please :)
Feb 05 22:34:27 <OneManClan> btw texmex has a ‘remove brights’ feature
Feb 05 22:35:47 <Spoike> specular textures should hold some multiplier for the exponent in their alpha channel. the rgb channels should be the colour of the shine (not necessarily matching the diffusemap – many surfaces would have something quite different, but pure white also works if you enjoy plastic).
Feb 05 22:36:05 <khreathor> yeah but it not always work as intended, better use this on wad: https://www.quaddicted.com/files/tools/defullbright-v0.1.zip
Feb 05 22:38:34 <khreathor> Spoike, ok so alpha channel has gloss amount? like black = 0 white 100% bright?
Feb 05 22:39:39 <OneManClan> khreator: yea texmex didnt work (?), trying your exe, thanks
Feb 05 22:39:41 <Spoike> no
Feb 05 22:39:49 <Spoike> the exponent controls the angle that its shiny at
Feb 05 22:40:16 <Spoike> to change the intensity, just scale the rgb values
Feb 05 22:41:09 <khreathor> ok
Feb 05 22:41:43 <khreathor> what happen if thre is no alpha ?
Feb 05 22:42:23 <Spoike> really low exponent
Feb 05 22:42:38 <khreathor> and what about parallax? where to put height map ?
Feb 05 22:42:45 <Spoike> makes it shiny at almost any angle
Feb 05 22:43:09 <Spoike> the heightmap is stored in the normalmap’s alpha channel.
Feb 05 22:43:29 <Spoike> or just supply a greyscale foo_bump.tga instead, and ditch the normalmap entirely.
Feb 05 22:43:42 <Spoike> and have the engine generate the normalmap part
Feb 05 22:44:31 <eukara> eww
Feb 05 22:49:28 <OneManClan> hm… defullbright didnt get rid of the fullbrights in my brick texture
Feb 05 22:50:07 <OneManClan> preview mode is pretty handy!
Feb 05 23:07:58 <OneManClan> hm.. somehow the fullbrights are back… even on the map I already compiled (?)
Feb 05 23:08:20 <OneManClan> ie the one that worked the khreathor fix
Feb 05 23:11:55 <OneManClan> Q: is there a fast/down & dirty way to assess whether a texture has fullbrights?
Feb 05 23:12:19 <OneManClan> ie without having to put it in a wad, recompile a map etc
Feb 05 23:12:21 <khreathor> no clue, but I’m almost ready with specular etc. 😀
Feb 05 23:17:59 <OneManClan> ah ok its working now
Feb 05 23:18:03 <OneManClan> weird
Feb 05 23:18:25 <OneManClan> i had to switch to ‘nice’, and then back to ‘real time’.. (!?)
Feb 05 23:19:16 <OneManClan> theory: i kept the same names for the textures (pre and post fullbright removal)
Feb 05 23:19:46 <OneManClan> so even though i changed the map, it DIDNT load the new textures.. because FTE thought it already had then (?)
Feb 05 23:19:55 <OneManClan> them
Feb 05 23:23:16 <OneManClan> confirmed: changing map doesnt reload textures 100%
Feb 05 23:24:42 <OneManClan> (i didnt change the name of the texture, just replaced it in the wad, wrote over the old wad, recompiled)
Feb 05 23:26:30 <OneManClan> vid_restart = a 100% refresh
Feb 05 23:27:34 <OneManClan> khreathor: weird how my bricks, which are a photo of real bricks look crap, but your bricks texture (which looks cartoony in Gimp), looks fantastic in the map
Feb 05 23:45:00 <khreathor> OneManClan, http://khreathor.xyz/tmp/bricks_norm.tga
Feb 05 23:45:07 <khreathor> http://khreathor.xyz/tmp/bricks_spec.tga
Feb 05 23:45:13 <khreathor> updated
Feb 05 23:45:24 <khreathor> I’m not sure if it will work correctly
Feb 05 23:45:32 <khreathor> let me know how it looks
Feb 05 23:45:41 <khreathor> screenies etc 😀
Feb 05 23:46:07 <OneManClan> so a new updated normalmap?
Feb 05 23:46:33 <khreathor> normalmap with parallax
Feb 05 23:46:57 <OneManClan> this replaces the other one
Feb 05 23:47:08 <khreathor> and specular + gloss or exposure
Feb 05 23:47:32 <OneManClan> so what do i do w the _spec one?
Feb 05 23:47:51 <OneManClan> just put it in /textures?
Feb 05 23:48:14 <khreathor> yes but i’m not sure about suffix
Feb 05 23:56:21 <OneManClan> hm.. cant really tell the difference
Feb 05 23:56:37 <OneManClan> somethigns changed, theres a ‘shift’ in the texture
Feb 05 23:56:54 <OneManClan> BEFORE: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/32722781945
Feb 05 23:57:27 <OneManClan> AFTER (updated _norm and new _spec): https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/32682480346
Feb 05 23:58:01 <OneManClan> note: the POV hasnt moved
Feb 05 23:59:10 <khreathor> shift is thanks to parallax
Feb 06 00:00:48 <OneManClan> the diff is more pronoucned in the closeup side view (uploading)
Feb 06 00:01:52 <khreathor> I know, that’s what parallax is for :)
Feb 06 00:02:06 <khreathor> but afaik it’s quite expensive
Feb 06 00:02:06 <OneManClan> ah
Feb 06 00:02:35 <OneManClan> ok here we go:
Feb 06 00:03:04 <OneManClan> Before (NO parallax NO _spec): https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/32570073452/
Feb 06 00:03:32 <OneManClan> After (parallax & _spec): https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/31880082454/
Feb 06 00:04:20 <khreathor> hmm looks like specular is not working
Feb 06 00:04:26 <khreathor> maybe suffix is wrong ?
Feb 06 00:05:21 <OneManClan> maybe its an FTE setting
Feb 06 00:07:15 <OneManClan> how ‘obvious’ is it?
Feb 06 00:07:26 <OneManClan> ie theres only 1 rtlight in that section
Feb 06 00:10:28 <khreathor> gl_specular 1 ?
Feb 06 00:11:04 <khreathor> ahhh “Append _norm and _gloss to the normal/specular textures for a surface to have FTE load them automatically.”
Feb 06 00:11:52 <khreathor> so _gloss suffix
Feb 06 00:22:46 <OneManClan> ok
Feb 06 00:25:04 <OneManClan> Before Gloss: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/32682939276/
Feb 06 00:25:19 <OneManClan> After Gloss: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N06/32600482401/in/dateposted-public/
Feb 06 00:25:50 <khreathor> nice
Feb 06 00:26:12 <khreathor> of course for bricks it looks lame cause it looks wet now
Feb 06 00:26:21 <OneManClan> yes
Feb 06 00:26:44 <khreathor> but for metallic stuff specular maps will be cool
Feb 06 00:26:46 <OneManClan> yes it looks wet, not yes it looks lame :)
Feb 06 00:26:52 <OneManClan> ah
Feb 06 00:27:13 <OneManClan> so whats the diff between a heightmap and a normalmap?
Feb 06 00:27:36 <OneManClan> nm i found a link
Feb 06 00:27:56 <OneManClan> http://blog.digitaltutors.com/bump-normal-and-displacement-maps/
Feb 06 00:30:01 <khreathor> I like polycount wiki: http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Normal_map
Feb 06 00:30:36 <khreathor> heightmap is used by parallax
Feb 06 00:31:12 <khreathor> so it kinda moves pixels out of mesh
Feb 06 00:31:20 <khreathor> I don’t know how to explain this
Feb 06 00:32:51 <khreathor> it’s displacing pixels to simulate displacement
Feb 06 00:33:06 * Soopa has quit (“h u m m u s w a v e”)
Feb 06 00:34:32 <khreathor> where normal map is just faking detail by shading surface based on provided texture
Feb 06 00:35:23 <khreathor> “it’s displacing pixels to simulate displacement” – lol, I’m tired…
Feb 06 00:40:53 <OneManClan> ah yes i was readin that yesterday
Feb 06 00:41:36 <OneManClan> this dude explains it (I hope) pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ7pTPOuxwc
Feb 06 00:43:50 <OneManClan> though his heightmap actually shows a change in the mesh
Feb 06 00:45:10 <OneManClan> so IIUC heightmaps are not ‘what colour to show at what angle’ on a ‘100% flat surface’ thing
Feb 06 00:45:43 <OneManClan> they are used to actually change the mash/surface (in real time?)
Feb 06 00:46:21 <OneManClan> I used to think heightmaps were only used to generate (natural looking) terrain
Feb 06 00:46:38 <OneManClan> ie you load them in a map editor
Feb 06 00:48:09 <OneManClan> not sure why they are included in discussion of ‘how to make 100% flat surfaces look more high poly’
Feb 06 00:52:43 <Shpuld> with parallax occlusion mapping or relief mapping you don’t actually increase the polycount
Feb 06 00:52:58 <Shpuld> but you still get very impressive looking depth
Feb 06 00:53:04 <OneManClan> So are heightmaps actually ‘displacing pixels’, or *appearing* to displace pixels?, the guy describes them as showing ‘displacement from the surface’: https://youtu.be/LZ7pTPOuxwc?t=212
Feb 06 00:53:14 <Shpuld> height map is just a way to store hewight data
Feb 06 00:53:23 <Shpuld> it doesn’t imply anything about how it’s going to be used
Feb 06 00:53:28 <OneManClan> ahhhhhh
Feb 06 00:54:26 <Shpuld> if a height map is used for terrain, it just gives information of what height to place the terrain vertices at, if it’s used for parallax mapping it’s for the shader to tell how to draw the pixels to fake the depth
Feb 06 00:55:05 <OneManClan> because in that guys example (of heightmaps) he shows a plane which has been changed – it its no longer flat
Feb 06 00:56:36 <OneManClan> https://youtu.be/LZ7pTPOuxwc?t=87
Feb 06 00:58:41 <Shpuld> as I said, it all depends on what you use it for, you could use it to manipulate or create geometry
Feb 06 00:59:52 <OneManClan> ok
Feb 06 00:59:53 <Shpuld> these days they use things like geometry shaders to create more detailed geometry on the fly to get better looking results than with parallax mapping
Feb 06 01:00:56 <Shpuld> this is known as tesselation
Feb 06 01:02:47 <OneManClan> wow.. so the actual edges/polygons of the ‘thing’ are changed.. in real time?
Feb 06 01:03:15 <OneManClan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0b4B3patSc
Feb 06 01:07:29 <Shpuld> yeah, geometry shaders let you actually create more geometry in real time from the stuff your cpu has sent to the gpu already, before sending it to vertex/fragment shaders
Feb 06 01:08:58 <OneManClan> i se
Feb 06 01:09:00 <OneManClan> e
Feb 06 01:09:28 <Shpuld> I don’t know what extent the modern games use them for
Feb 06 01:10:00 <Shpuld> things like hair/fur shaders, water, highly detailed dynamic stuff like that is one thing
Feb 06 01:11:38 <OneManClan> yea
Feb 06 01:15:02 <spiritiit2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pttiQbSNXaM :))
Feb 06 01:21:20 <spiritiit2> http://gamespy-archives.quaddicted.com is finally back
Feb 06 01:29:50 <Lava_Croft> Good job spiritiit2 😀
Feb 06 01:29:55 <Lava_Croft> Sending him the rune <3
Feb 06 01:31:53 <Shpuld> ye, awesome package
Feb 06 01:37:39 <OneManClan> very cool!
Feb 06 01:37:53 <OneManClan> its like.. a weapon!
Feb 06 01:39:32 <Shpuld> anything is a weapon if you try hard enough
Feb 06 01:42:35 <OneManClan> TRUE or FALSE: “If you make one awesome texture (normal/parallax/gloss etc) .. you have to make ALL textures as good, otherwise the awesome one will make the others look crappy”
Feb 06 01:45:41 <OneManClan> (generally speaking)
Feb 06 01:51:09 <OneManClan> like cleaning only the bonnet of your car
Feb 06 01:51:17 <OneManClan> hood
Feb 06 01:56:20 <Lava_Croft> yes, you have to
Feb 06 01:56:36 <Lava_Croft> or else you get the Far Cry problem where one texture is nice hires and the one next it is some lowres 128px shit thing
Feb 06 01:57:26 <OneManClan> …yea
Feb 06 01:59:33 <OneManClan> well its been a productive night
Feb 06 01:59:58 <OneManClan> normal maps!
Feb 06 02:00:10 <OneManClan> and gloss maps
Feb 06 02:00:28 <OneManClan> khreathor: thanks for the hand holding
Feb 06 02:01:01 <OneManClan> night all

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