What: Weekly AGR Session
Where: tastyspleen.net:26666
When: Sunday 22:00 GMT. Convert this to your timezone here.
Who: TF players
Why: Because it’s there!
MAP SCHEDULE = laser2, rock2, frozen/street
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FTE the official AGR Client:
Download the lastest official AGR approved FTE here!
FTE: FAST-MODE!
Also, if you’re using FTE (which you should be for the full AGR experience!) and want it to be as fast as possible, make sure you select ‘fast mode’ (Options->Graphics Presets) and in addition, at the console, type in:
- r_waterstyle 1
- cl_nolerp 1
This should exactly match ezquake in terms of responsiveness. Please confirm, in the comments below.
AGR VENTRILLO SERVER
[NOTE: Ventrillo is being phased out. Here’s a link on how to use AGR Voice2Demo]
We use a voice chat ventrillo for voice chat during AGR games. Download it, install it, and connect to 78.129.193.9, port 4298, AGR (Red+Blue) channels. Password is sent to those on the AGR Mailing List, but if you ask nicely during the game, someone might help you out.
DEMOS
All games are recorded, only the best are uploaded, in the comments section below. All demos are available upon request
My subjective review of 2fortember:
1st half: I went red soldier to begin with. Everyone else it seemed went a support class. Eventually switched to spy and managed to get the flag out a few times (more by luck than anything).
In short though, this game was won by superb RR defence and I imagine good communication. The spiral was definitely the weakest point but even when I did get past the demoman another blue from the RR came to support. Proving once again that say_team is essential.
2nd half: Teams were switched. Somewhere in the middle blue was solid but then it all went to pieces at the end. I can only presume that some defenders went AFK and left the spiral completely unguarded (I was in RR).
Nobody really bothered to use say_team so imagine my surprise to see flag being capped. My constant pleas of “flag loc?” went mostly unheard so eventually moved from RR to spiral and found it empty. If I really cared about why blue lost this map I’d watch the demo but actually…I don’t care. Red deserved to win. Seemed blue just spawned bots (I’m guilty). At one point I saw OMC giving some love to his bot as a red flag carrier skipped past. I raged at the time but in hindsight it’s actually a ‘lol’.
Please for the love of Quake, use say_team !!!!
Hi OMC 😀
Well it was very interesting I agree with what you said in your review.
I couldn’t stay all the game but to mee we where enough and couple of visitors where curious not enough to stay sometimes I can understand.
It was a great experience and that what counts… experimenting for the next time hehe.
Q -Mark [0!0]
aka fan_q1 / Mom
Urgent business came up at the last minute, that’s why I wasn’t on from the start.
When I joined, I went blue as I had been intending to and blue was playing absolutely great, and I say that having seen the Defense from inside and, after being asked to switch to red, from outside. On red I immediately customized to a tanky soldier build and someone was following me around as chaplain. Let me tell you, I felt like I was cheating because chapped rockets are so damn powerful lol.
Didn’t seem like there was a lot of grouping up and communication on red, but I’m not even sure how many red we had later on, it seemed like we lost attackers. Other than the chaplain, I felt like I was attacking alone- I know that’s not the case but when reds don’t hit at the same time the expert way blue was handling defense stays absolutely impenetrable.
I had 200 blast gymnast so I was pretty tough to take down, but when a ‘spider’ went sniper, he was on fire, hitting almost every time he fired. After several instant deaths before I could cross the bridge, I recustomized and grabbed scuba, and reminded my fellow attackers to use the waterway to avoid the sniper. At one point I decided the sniper was fucking ridiculous and got 200 kevlar, but then I couldn’t get last against the damn soldiers further inside the base.
Even after I began using the waterway, the sniper was a constant threat before I could get into the base, and the defenders were on their toes. On offense, krac or emp grenades are a necessity, otherwise you can’t get past pipebomb fields (not easily anyway).
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In game 2… I went blue and what I was immediately struck by was how disorganized blue seemed to be.
I want to address something. I was at my best last night (I am proud, watch the demo) and still, even when hitting invading enemies with several pipebombs, they would get past. It is frustrating when you see someone hopping in, and you hit them with 3 or 4+ pipes and yet they still survive. All I know is that I gave red hell all game long…but am I overestimating the damage of pipebombs?
Not sure wtf Kevin was using but he was fast as fuck even when not hopping, and still had a rocket launcher and nades. I’m still glad that he chose to stand and deliver rather than just running past like some jagoffs do, though, because we had some fast, intense fights.
The grunts- blue had so fucking many grunts- they were everywhere. OMC, what needs to happen with grunts is this:
-Max 2 grunts per player.
-Half the hit points.
+Heals themselves more frequently.
+Doesn’t get “stunned” by damage!
+Actually gets the fuck away from fucking tossable grenades instead of fucking staring at themWHAT THE FUCK MOVE YOUR FUCKING ASS, GRUNT, YOU FUCKING GIBBED IDIOT!
ACCURACY CHANGES FOR GRUNTS
-Accuracy with shotguns reduced to 80%
+Accuracy with nailguns reduced to 60%
-High, but imperfect accuracy on rockets.
To explain: In years past I used an editor that was made for DOOM (called DEHackEd) and tried setting the player to permanent “partial invisibility”.
When you’re partially invisible, monsters have imperfect accuracy, mostly missing…but not always. What I quickly realized was that it made DOOM a lot more challenging because enemies weren’t always firing projectiles right at you. Instead of a group of projectile shooters launching all their fireballs directly at you, it was a cloud of projectiles flying in your general direction, so you had to be careful not to strafe into an incoming attack.
Not sure what it takes to roll out these changes, but I am certain it will actually make grunts more balanced overall and more fun for everyone.
One more thing I would really like to see on grunts: A skill menu that combines the two seperate menus so that you can more easily change the grunt’s settings. Here’s my example
1- Patrol point A
2- Patrol point B
3- Follow me/Stay put (toggle)
4- On obstacle, Jump/don’t jump (toggle)
5- Mode switch: Normal, Seek, Ceasefire, (cycling toggle)
6- Status Report (Grunt’s inventory and stats)
7- Report Frequency: Low, Medium, High (What Grunt reports- cycling toggle)
9- Activate Grunt Bomb Implant (G.B.I. = G’Bye)
I actually don’t fully understand all the different modes for grunts. ‘Seek’ clearly operates differently than ‘normal’ mode, but what about the others (I forget the names, ‘Static’ and something else, I think)?
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I have a ton of ideas for improvements, just not the programming skill (yet) to help design the changes. Remember, any suggestions we have to polish up the gameplay aren’t just for immediate implementation- all good ideas can be transplanted into a future stand-alone game or modded into a newer game!
Heeeere’s the demos!!
Hi again 😀
Well about what Beltan said above…
“I had 200 blast gymnast so I was pretty tough to take down, but when a ‘spider’ went sniper, he was on fire, hitting almost every time he fired. After several instant deaths before I could cross the bridge, I recustomized and grabbed scuba, and reminded my fellow attackers to use the waterway to avoid the sniper. At one point I decided the sniper was fucking ridiculous and got 200 kevlar, but then I couldn’t get last against the damn soldiers further inside the base”.
Spider was very impressive… hiding good and aimaing great… just had time to see a little blue spot and bang.
Also about Wolf… I don’t know if it’s the same Wolf I know but he was funny probably a newbie like me but he was really trying and communication was ok… I didn’t really bother with Ventrillo.
No, not a newbie. Actually more of a veteran in AGR terms but obviously you picked up on the fact that I do things a little differently from most on the server.
Try to be funny but no doubt I’ve pissed a lot of players off in my time, I’m often overly critical of people when they don’t play very well. It’s just mostly game talk or ‘trash talk’ but really when it comes down to it I’ve got nothing personal against anyone in Quake
I haven’t been able to enjoy much about this game for a long time.
I’m done trying.
Probably explains all the suggestions and rants about BH etc but at least you cared. Never the less despite our differences it always pains me to see players just up and leave like that.
Just curious though, are you talking about AGR or just QuakeTF in general?
I love QuakeTF but always considered CustomTF (all versions) to be my favorite game.
I just feel like something I loved somehow turned into something I hate without me realizing it.
The first time I decided to stop playing was after a bad run on a game of Well6. I realized I had just mindlessly run out of the base like 15x and died instantly to sniper fire (despite 200 kevlar).
The second was when I felt like the community of AGR was being turned into something ugly and also because I really believe there are at least a couple of cheaters that weren’t being punished.
I plan on making some games of my own someday because I look at gameplay on many of the games I see and say to myself, “This can be done better”- I say it without arrogance or pridefulness or to get credit for doing something, I really REALLY do it for nothing else but love of the game, I really want a challenge with a that pinch of chaos we all love to see.
But when I’m playing and I get fragged instantly by an OTR round, I keep asking myself, “Why do I even bother playing this?” because it makes me so damn depressed- not because *I* lost, but because the gameplay is so skewed in the regard that a player can take aim and hit their target once for an easy kill.
I *know* what an extraordinary experience a close, hard-fought game can be for everyone.
For me, the sniper rifle represents everything wrong with multiplayer gaming. We’re here to compete and have fun, and one-hit kill weapons directly oppose that: they are all about empowerment and domination.
I played half-life deathmatch with some computer students when I was in highschool and I remember one level we played in particular. The host joined up and got to the top of the level, where there was a spot with a crossbow, crossbow ammo, health, armor, and a protective barrier.
We played for at least an hour, and during that time we began to fight with each other less and less and attempt more and more to reach the top of the level. The host sat up there and had hundreds of frags. He got a point about every 3 seconds (averaged out).
The feeling I came away with on that game was terrible- I felt like I’d just wasted an hour of my life because it wasn’t fun or compelling or exciting or challenging, it was just as unfair as it could be without TECHNICALLY cheating.
Entertainment passes the time, but in the end you are still supposed to come away with something. Overcoming a challenge makes you feel good, you fought hard and did great. Winning because you had a massive, unbeatable advantage wasn’t really a big deal and doesn’t warrant praise or compel you to improve.
Just because the game has a lot of redeeming qualities and genius gameplay elements that doesn’t mean it can’t be improved upon. I wish everyone came away from a session saying, “Wow What a blast! I’m so glad I didn’t miss this session!”. That’s why I suggest these huge sweeping gameplay changes like snipers dealing less damage but inflicting conditions like concussion, or further restricting or balancing Bunnyhopping.
I know these things are traditional, and I realize you consider some of them, like hopping, to be core elements of the game…but I see things that are holding back how great the game could be, and that’s why I try so hard to convince you.
I just don’t have the authority and skill to make the changes I want to see. Someday I’ll make the games I dream up and share them with you.
As for AGR and TF, if every session makes me regret having played, I’d rather not play any more.
Beltan, if we’re talking snipers, I agree that they are a detriment to most games.
The original AGR manifesto involved removing snipers completely (the code is still in there) but I didn’t go ahead because we’d lose a bunch of players. What I did instead, was make it harder for snipers – so they have to earn their ‘shots’. Not only has sniper damage has been reduced (a player with 300 armour can survive a direct OTR shot to the head), but Kevlar is VERY strong now, you can survive multiple direct shots!
‘One shot kills’ can therefore be (mostly) avoided. Let me know if you’d like a demonstration sometime.
The sniper rifle’s potential is still nearly absolute, being limited almost entirely by skill ceiling.
Other factors also increase a sniper’s advantage: Snipers get multiple shots at a player who is trying to cross a long distance. Even someone wearing 300 kevlar can be killed in two hits, a full OTR shot will leave you with almost nothing left.
On top of that, 300 kevlar is very expensive- and without a good legspeed it’s basically a waste of money against a sniper.
In fact, it’s more cost efficient to buy a sniper rifle of your own and kill them and then just travel over while they are respawning.
The rifle is just too reliant on that skill ceiling for balance. The longer a game is played, the less effective a skill ceiling is as a game balancing factor; players become more skilled over time.
On a side note, if you buy 200 kevlar armor, you can still be killed in one shot. lol, worst. kevlar. ever.
Beltan, that’s fair enough. I will admit that some maps/games are just frustrating because of certain players or nagging gameplay flaws.
There’s 2 reasons why snipers now are incredibly annoying, even if on your side:
1) Player numbers are usually quite modest. Obviously hitting opposing players is much easier when there are less of them about, simple really. Also when you have a sniper on your side it almost feels like a half player that basically doesn’t really help your side. There are exceptions to this but on the whole they camp or stay out of sight.
2) Repeating the obvious but as you refuse to (or can’t) bunnyhop, it makes you a much easier target to hit. Last game I saw you rage quit out of, you weren’t the only player being ‘one shotted’ consistently. I had to rocket/grenade jump a few times and BH fast to get past the sniper and even then I’d say 50% I was insta killed.
I know that last point is going to annoy you as I’m aware you think it’s a unfair advantage or glitch exploiting but really the problem is that nobody tried to deal with the sniper. We had no sniper/pyro to counter with and you know that I usually don’t get involved with deathmatching players unless I really have to.
I’d say stay and continue playing but to be honest, I know how frustrating playing CuTF. Raged many times at chaps, snipers, stuff being nerfed in AGR but I still enjoy it most the time…
Agree with both of your points.
The gameplay elements are all connected, so you wouldn’t want to just immediately change things, you’d want to study the changes you were making and play through some scenarios in your mind.
As much as I despise hopping, I would have to go through every item one by way and say to myself, “How is this item different if hopping is removed?” because it’s absence affects gameplay balance as much as it’s presence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoHWH_Ikuo0 Short video demo of FTE client features. Enjoy. 3 hours spent. Go 720p mode.
Join today tastyspleen.net:26666 Saturdays euro shake, map voting is on, if we will get 6 players, nice. 21:00 GMT
saph – some old FTE stuff of mine: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bw6cu4sobi6rwqm/yX5aVkApz_
my particle set no longer works with the newer version FTE though. Get spike to edit mine, or provide real documentation and i’ll update them to work for the new FTE..
http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/topic/718/my-fte-particle-effects
Ye ye i watched them before your post nice stuff, love effects
“Get spike to edit mine, or provide real documentation and i’ll update them to work for the new FTE..”
Ye could be more fun with such effects. I play full effects it delivers more fun to me) Like fancy enviroment, blazing and hazing explotions etc)
Guyz i just accidentally revealed ONE SINGLE wrong settings (ez and fte) that prevents me from bunny jumping in quake. I changed that setting and start b-jumping from first try. Lol its so easy. Welcome myself to the pro club, lol.
http://youtu.be/AjiLrF4JdFs – here is proof video
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fib2st3y4qpeyzc/bunny.gif – here is fun pic